Build for friend legallity

C-dub · Post by **C-dub** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:49 pm

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but after 15-20 minutes of searching I cannot find the answer(s) to my question(s).

This isn't about me, but for the sake of argument I'm going to say it is.

If A friend want's me to build him a rifle, can I legally do that if I'm not an FFL? I think I can, but then there's something in the back of my head that says there's a detail I'm forgetting.

1. Can I build the whole thing and sell it to him?
2. Do I have to fill out a 4473 form for any part or is that if I purchase an upper that is at least 80% complete?
3. If I do have to fill out a 4473 form for anything, I can't truthfully answer that the part/firearm is intended for my own use, correct? I think this is the part that is problematic.

Thanks everyone,
C-dub

Pawpaw · Post by **Pawpaw** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:55 pm

How about having him buy the lower and fill out the 4473? The lower is the only part that is legally a firearm.

If you buy it, knowing what you're going to do, you would have to lie on the form where it asks if you are buying for personal use.

C-dub · Post by **C-dub** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:00 pm

Thanks Pawpaw.

I got the upper/lower thing mixed up, but that was another option I forgot to ask about.

PBratton · Post by **PBratton** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:00 pm

Pawpaw wrote:How about having him buy the lower and fill out the 4473? The lower is the only part that is legally a firearm.

If you buy it, knowing what you're going to do, you would have to lie on the form where it asks if you are buying for personal use.

Yup. That's your best bet, otherwise you are manufacturing for sale...

Send your buddy to AIM Surplus, they have Bushmaster lowers on sale for $49 bucks.

Beiruty · Post by **Beiruty** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:20 pm

When you buy a lower you need to fill the Federal form. Best let your friend doing the purchase under his name. BTW, only the lower is the firearm everything else is just parts. If you are not building a lower then, you are not manufacturing anything. you are assembling a rifle.

Beiruty · Post by **Beiruty** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:23 pm

AndyC wrote:Teach a man to fish...

Yeah, what if I am not interested in buying barrel tools and extra set of wrenches?
If I need to compliment my M400 (basic AR-15 Carbine), I would just purchase a 20" Varmint or Match grade upper and top it with a nice day/NV optics.

dcphoto · Post by **dcphoto** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:26 pm

If he buys an 80% lower he must do the machine work to complete it himself. You couldn't do anything more than supervise to prevent him from hurting himself or breaking something. After that you can help him assemble it, but I'm with AndyC.

Teach a man to fish...

The Annoyed Man · Post by **The Annoyed Man** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:04 pm

AndyC wrote:Teach a man to fish...

Yep.

Beiruty wrote:
AndyC wrote:Teach a man to fish...

Yeah, what if I am not interested in buying barrel tools and extra set of wrenches?
If I need to compliment my M400 (basic AR-15 Carbine), I would just purchase a 20" Varmint or Match grade upper and top it with a nice day/NV optics.

No problem, don't learn to fish if you don't want to. But some people want to learn, and it is a valuable skill set to have. It's not that hard, nor does it actually require a lot of special tools (only 1 that I'm aware of), but it isn't for everybody.

Beiruty · Post by **Beiruty** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:35 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
AndyC wrote:Teach a man to fish...
Yep.
Beiruty wrote:
AndyC wrote:Teach a man to fish...

Yeah, what if I am not interested in buying barrel tools and extra set of wrenches?
If I need to compliment my M400 (basic AR-15 Carbine), I would just purchase a 20" Varmint or Match grade upper and top it with a nice day/NV optics.
No problem, don't learn to fish if you don't want to. But some people want to learn, and it is a valuable skill set to have. It's not that hard, nor does it actually require a lot of special tools (only 1 that I'm aware of), but it isn't for everybody.

TAM,

All what you need is a Vise, Barrel holder, Barrel wrench and Receiver clamp and small other tools that anyone can find in his garage. Instruction are on youtube:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8sY5CQmlHI[/video]

The Annoyed Man · Post by **The Annoyed Man** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:55 pm

Beiruty wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
AndyC wrote:Teach a man to fish...
Yep.
Beiruty wrote:
AndyC wrote:Teach a man to fish...

Yeah, what if I am not interested in buying barrel tools and extra set of wrenches?
If I need to compliment my M400 (basic AR-15 Carbine), I would just purchase a 20" Varmint or Match grade upper and top it with a nice day/NV optics.
No problem, don't learn to fish if you don't want to. But some people want to learn, and it is a valuable skill set to have. It's not that hard, nor does it actually require a lot of special tools (only 1 that I'm aware of), but it isn't for everybody.
TAM,
All what you need is a Vise, Barrel holder, Barrel wrench and Receiver clamp and small other tools that anyone can find in his garage. Instruction are on youtube:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8sY5CQmlHI[/video]

Don't need the video. I've built several already. I didn't count the vise because any workbench should have one anyway, whether or not you have an AR. And I didn't include the receiver block because while it makes things easier, it isn't absolutely necessary (and you can make your own from wood). Pretty much the only specialized too - meaning specific to AR15 rifles - you need is a barrel wrench. Everything else can be improvised from tools on hand....including a receiver block.

Beiruty · Post by **Beiruty** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:35 am

ha ha ha.. I meant to say, "All what I need...."

C-dub · Post by **C-dub** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:24 am

Assemble would have been a better word than build. Although, I'm not completely sure about that since I'm not the one that will be assembling the rifle and I don't even really know either party in this transaction. A friend of mine, at work, asked me about the legality of a friend of his that wants to buy a rifle from another friend that says he will buy everything and build it for him. It was just easier to say I was going to assemble one for a friend at first.

Thanks everyone.

jayinsat · Post by **jayinsat** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:02 am

Beiruty wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
AndyC wrote:Teach a man to fish...
Yep.
Beiruty wrote:
AndyC wrote:Teach a man to fish...

Yeah, what if I am not interested in buying barrel tools and extra set of wrenches?
If I need to compliment my M400 (basic AR-15 Carbine), I would just purchase a 20" Varmint or Match grade upper and top it with a nice day/NV optics.
No problem, don't learn to fish if you don't want to. But some people want to learn, and it is a valuable skill set to have. It's not that hard, nor does it actually require a lot of special tools (only 1 that I'm aware of), but it isn't for everybody.
TAM,
All what you need is a Vise, Barrel holder, Barrel wrench and Receiver clamp and small other tools that anyone can find in his garage. Instruction are on youtube:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8sY5CQmlHI[/video]

Youtube is freaking AWESOME! They should offer degrees or diplomas on Youtube because I have learned how to do so many things by watching Youtube video's. It's like having a mentor at your beckon call for all things handyman.

The Annoyed Man · Post by **The Annoyed Man** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:33 am

jayinsat wrote:Youtube is freaking AWESOME! They should offer degrees or diplomas on Youtube because I have learned how to do so many things by watching Youtube video's. It's like having a mentor at your beckon call for all things handyman.

It can be awesome, but it isn't a repository of guaranteed best practices either, so you have to be careful. Before he ever became anything more than a shade-tree gunsmith, my son found instructions on YouTube for how to lighten the stock trigger on an AR. It worked for me, and balanced against the cost of an aftermarket trigger, it's pretty decent. BUT...... I maintain that I was lucky, as it is entirely possible to overdo the hack and render your trigger (And hammer) useless. The ingredient for success was the mind of a teenager with an acumen for how things work and an understanding that finesse is often what distinguishes an artist from Bubba.

There is some cringe-worthy stuff on YouTube, and there's some good stuff too. Let common sense prevail.

TexasCHLforum.com

Build for friend legallity

Build for friend legallity

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