Best small caliber pistol? .22? .38? Looking to buy!

[ForbidInjustice]

So I went out to the range yesterday and shot my Glock 23 and my Springfield XD-9. Both great guns, and even with the wind factor, I can tell that I am getting better. I was much more accurate than I was a month ago, even with the 9mm, which I had never shot before. I also shot my buddy's snub-nose .38 revolver for the first time. First shot from 30ft? BULLSEYE! Second shot? BULLSEYE! Dead center both times! Even he was surprised. The second shot went so center that we couldn't even see the bullet hole until we pulled the target.

That being said, I am looking to buy a new gun, probably for a backup concealed carry, and of course, some fun at the range. My buddy told me how cheap .22 ammo is [1000 rounds for around 10 bucks?] so I immediately became interested in that caliber. However, my shooting with the .38 is right on as well, so I'm not too partial to either yet. I'm fairly new to gun hardware and only been shooting for a few months.

I'm looking for a small caliber [preferably a .22 or .38 or another caliber with cheap ammo] semi-auto pistol that's fun to shoot, has a good reputation, and a size ideal for concealed carry. I am somewhat into style, but it's not my main concern. Decent price range [less than $300], although I'm just looking, so that's not too big of a factor at the moment.

I own a FIE Titan .25, but I don't even shoot the thing because although .25 cal ammo is available, it's not common shot, so they want about $15 for 50 rounds. I don't think so.

Your words are appreciated!

[longtooth]

.38 sp & 9mm ammo are both affordable. You can buy a quality .38 sp snubbie in your price range & can get a good one if you watch & buy one used. The .38 is my backup & MANY on this board do the same. You are on the right track.

[AV8R]

The secret of success is practice, practice, practice. The .22 gives you the most practice for the money, and it's the least tiring gun to shoot that I know of. You can shoot 1000 rounds in an afternoon without breaking a sweat. Once you learn the fundamentals and commit them to muscle memory, it's a snap to transition to a bigger caliber, and nothing is cheaper than 9mm in a defense caliber. For someone new to shooting, I think the quickest, cheapest way to get good is to start with a .22.

[Crossfire]

.38 costs a little more, but is reloadable. .22 is cheap, and fun to shoot.

If you are shooting for fun, get a .22. If you are looking for a backup gun that you might have to trust your life to one day, better go with the .38.

Cause if you ever have to actually shoot someone with a .22, and they notice, they might be angry.

[Greybeard]

If you hang around awhile, you'll likely see mention of "j-frame" revolvers. It has nothing to do with the shape, it just happens to be part of Smith & Wesson's terminology for their family of snubby revolvers ...

The Models 642 and 442 (both in .38) are probably the most popular. But they also make a "j frame" in .22LR. An eight shot, IIRC. Model 317 ??? I had one a few years back and it was a neat little "training" gun - but pricey, over $400 new. Extremely light weight.

And yes Linda , I did carry it every once in a while as "backup" - the weeks that my fingernails were really short.

[mr surveyor]

if you're still a bit new to handguns, I would strongly suggest you get a moderately priced .22 cal semi and shoot as often as possible. Personally, I would recommend a Ruger 22/45 as the grip and frame more closely resemble most other modern "plastic" guns, as well as 1911's. I really don't understand the concept of the average citizen needing to carry a "back-up" gun. If you're proficient with your carry gun, and know how to properely care for it, you should not need a "back-up gun" for self defense. Now, for practice, practice, practice.... a good, reliable .22 cal pistol is a great investment.


Now, there ARE 7 days in a week, and variety IS the spice of life, so there is a very good reason to have available more than just a single "carry gun"


just my lame opinions

[PhilR.]

I'm looking for a small caliber [preferably a .22 or .38 or another caliber with cheap ammo] semi-auto pistol that's fun to shoot, has a good reputation, and a size ideal for concealed carry.

Lots of good comments about revolvers, but since you specifically want a semi-auto, then you should look into a smaller 9mm. 9mm ammo is just about the cheapest centerfire pistol ammo around, and can often be found for about $5 a box. Heck, my last box of CCI .22lr Quickshocks cost more than that.

There are a few smaller 9mm's that are about your price range. Bersa makes one, as does Taurus. The Kel-Tec PF9 can also be found under $300, and would make an excellent CCW. Slightly more money will get you a Kahr CW9. Personally, I would spend a bit more and get a Kahr, but if $300 was my absolute limit, then I would get a Kel-tec PF9 (or maybe a P11).

There are a few smaller .22 auto's to consider as well, but they are better suited as range guns rather than as CCW's. The Walther P22 is actually small enough to conceal, and will fit many different hands since it has interchangeable backstraps. There is also the Beretta .22 w/tip-up barrel (Bobcat?), but it is really too small to be a range gun.

hth,
PhilR.

[KRM45]

+1 for the Walther P-22.

Great fun for the range an a cheap way to practice a lot.

[govnor]

I just bought one of these:



Haven't even shot it yet, but .22's are fun! I also bought some goodies off of this website: http://www.tacticalinc.com/walther-p22-c-110.html

Yeah, I want the real silencer, but haven't gotten a class 3 yet. I don't see a problem with carrying the .22 as a backup gun. I also have a Titan, but would rather carry the P22. I agree with others though... a .38 is better for backup. I have a Taurus ultralight for that duty.

[Thane]

If you're looking for a good backup piece, there's four considerations:

How effective is it?
How reliable is it?
How much does the ammo cost?
How difficult is it to conceal?

I would stay away from .22s and .25s, if it's gonna be carried as a "serious piece." I have a pocket .22 (a cheapo Jennnings) and a pocket .25 (FN 1903 - got lucky on that one). Both are about the same size, but with serious drawbacks. The Jennings is unreliable, and jams every second to third shot; .22 ammo is dirt cheap, though. The FN is quite reliable, but the round is more expensive. Both are pipsqueak cartridges for self-defense, and I'd only carry one of these pistols as a "third gun."

A decent .32 ACP might be what you're looking for. North American Arms, Kel-Tec, and a couple others make acceptable backups. Ammo's still not all that cheap, though, and they can be picky as to what they will/won't feed.

My preference for a "backup" piece would be a .380 of some sort. Ammunition, while not cheap, is not at "$ell your fir$tborn" levels, and there's a plethora of good defensive ammo available. Unfortunately, my preferred pistol for this cartridge is a Colt Mustang, not a cheap gun. I know someone who has one, but they ain't parting with it for a LONG time.

There are also a few pocket 9mms out there, but as power goes up, the pistol gets bigger and harder to conceal. In my opinion, the Colt and Kel-Tec "pocket .380s" are about as small as you can get and still have a round with some "oomph" behind it. The Colts are also acceptably accurate; no idea on the K-Ts, as I've never fired one.

My overall pick for a backup? Colt Mustang. Now, if I could just find one that's not already spoken for...


(Or, you could go the esoteric and "weird" route and get a S&W 940, a double-action-only revolver in 9mm Para, of all things. Be warned, they kick.)

[govnor]

Man, I was checking out the NAA minis and WOW $$$!!!

http://www.naaminis.com/index02.html

I dig the .380 for backup. I plan to buy one eventually. I have two of the derringers, one .22 and one .22 short. They're not much, but they work very well and craftsmanship is great. Either way, it's a good last resort piece. Hey, if you have a CHL, why not carry three or four guns anyway?

And check out these pocket holsters...I've seen many variations of these.

http://www.pocketholsters.com/NAA_Pocke ... lster.html

http://www.naaminis.com/hol22.html

[Rex B]

I have one each of the Keltecs except for the PF9. My daily carry is the P3AT .380. None of the Kel-Tecs will press your "style" button.
I like the feel of the P11. Nice gun, small for a 9mm, holds 10+1 rounds. It's a little big for me to carry comfortably except in cargo shorts, and then the weight bothers me. If you are local to Ft Worth, CTD has them on sale for $259 through this weekend, in OD grip only.

I like the Walther P22, but the reports I have seen indicate reliability may be iffy. But you might get lucky, and they look cool and have great ergo.

Check out the Beretta Neos in the short barrel. Might trip yer trigger for style. Grip frames afailable in blue and red, as well as black and gray. Star-Trek styling.

NAA Black Widow with target sights is on my short list.

[Jeremae]

You are actually asking about two different things here.

1. A small "pocket pistol" to use for backup... There are several threads discussing these but trend seems to be either small frame revolver (S&W j-frames like 442) or auto (Bersa thunder, kel-tecs,kahrs) Although shot placement is most important factor and "If you hit him in the eye" anything will work, it would be best to make 32/380 for autos,38 for revolvers your minimum calibre to consider for this.

2. A gun that uses cheap ammo for practice... 22lr is definately the king here (in fact you can some times get 5000 for less than $20) You can go with one of the standard 22 plinkers (Auto(Browning Buckmark, Ruger mark II/III, ruger 22/45 etc) revolver(Ruger single six, etc)) or there are conversion kits available for most modern autos (including your glock) that you put a different slide/barrel on your frame and use a different magazine that allows you to shoot 22s and all the controls (grip, trigger, etc) are the same as your carry gun (because it IS your carry gun)

[Skiprr]

I agree with Jeremae that two different things are being discussed. I could frankly never consider using a .22 or .25 as a backup gun...unless it's a third-stage backup tucked in an ankle holster under your Tony Llama's.

Of the two, a .22 LR would be better, I think (this in disparagement of the Ian Fleming I read as a kid: James Bond carried a Beretta .25). During the Cold War, the .22 LR was the assassins' sneak-up gun of choice because it was so easy to silence and could, with a close-up and personal shot, be effective.

But we've seen a few paraphrasings of Col. Cooper's "you might make him angry" parable, so here's a true story.

Thirty-plus years ago a friend of mine named Paul Barbee was a competitive powerlifter. At 5'9" and about 300 pounds, he was the original "refrigerator," with apologies to Perry. At that time, a world-class bench press was just about 600, and Paul was right there.

Paul was working a job as nightclub bouncer. On the night, he had the outside crowd, I had the inside "rope."

To keep it short, nastiness ensued and a guy pulled a gun on Paul and fired once. The .22 LR round lodged in Paul's sternum (so we can applaud the shooter's aim). I left my post, of course, and saw Paul look down at the hole in his shirt, then look up at the shooter. And if looks could kill...

I don't know why the shooter didn't fire again. Surprise, shock, intimidation?

Paul wasn't a sprinter by any stretch, but he ambled quickly. He pushed the gun-arm out of the way, picked the guy up overhead like he was paper mache, and smashed him down on the concrete.

Fast forward. I don't know what happened to the shooter. I know he was in the hospital for a while, but I don't know how long or how serious. He looked liked dead fish in the parking lot to me, so I think it wasn't minor. I was never questioned by LE after that night.

Paul complained that he wanted to sit in the ambulance's passenger seat, not in the back. The extent of his injury was mainly anger.

Now in my middle-age, I think of this lesson as the "Barbee Factor":

"If you don't have faith your handgun will stop an enraged 300lb powerlifter, get a bigger gun."

[govnor]

Paul complained that he wanted to sit in the ambulance's passenger seat, not in the back. The extent of his injury was mainly anger.

Now in my middle-age, I think of this lesson as the "Barbee Factor":

"If you don't have faith your handgun will stop an enraged 300lb powerlifter, get a bigger gun."

Hrm. That is an interesting story. I've heard about a few people shot with .22's without major injury. I wonder if the guy would have kept shooting (which I'm glad he didn't in this case) if it would have put the guy down. I think if I unloaded 11 shots into someone it would at least give me a chance to run and slow them down even if they were on PCP or something. Who knows though... the bigger the gun the better. When I'm talking about carrying a NAA .22 derringer for backup, that's like third or fourth backup.

Just about every self defense shooting I've ever heard of was over before another clip had to be loaded. Some after one or two shots. My thought is if you need more than one gun, you're in big trouble anyway. Not that I wouldn't carry a backup, but even with that, if you needed it you might not make it out of that situation.