Open carry - threatening gestures?

[texas yankee]

assuming that open carry passes, I'm wondering about what the legal and practical do's and dont's will be as far as having a gun on my hip - last thing I wanna do is make an inadvertent move that someone would see as me "going for my gun" - would me simply putting my hand on my open carry gun be similar to brandishing in a CC situation? Or is it gonna be hands off until you are ready to shoot, resulting in "quick draw" situations? I'm just trying to get some ideas in case I decide to OC - I am NOT looking for a discussion why open carry is a good or bad idea - thanks!

[A-R]

You're not going to find a definitive, black-n-white answer.

"Totality of circumstances" will determine.

[RetNavy]

if your like me. you carry on your strong side, which for me is the right side. just walking down the street a normal walk will have your hand swinging pass the holster with each step..... is that a threatening gesture??????..... no matter which way you carry any movement of your arms or hands will pass by your weapon.... just my opinion

[thetexan]

If you were standing in front of a person, you with your holstered gun on your right hip, and the two of you got into a heated argument, and you placed your hand on your gun.

Could he defend himself to a jury that he reasonably believed immediate action was necessary to defend himself against you, as he explains why he shot you dead? And, his only witness is a woman who was standing behind you and saw you put your hand on your pistol grip. What she didn't see was that you had a smile on your face and that you were not threatening at all!

Or in the process of checking out at Walmart, with a policeman standing nearby, you reached for your gun and the cop drew on you and stopped the threat. He didn't know you were only putting your hand in your pocket for the money.

Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, self-defense is in the eye of the defender at the moment.

Meanwhile your still dead, or handcuffed going to the slammer. So be sure you don't present WHAT IS PERCEIVED BY SOMEONE ELSE as a threatening gesture or action. Remember, their only requirement is to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that they had a reasonable belief that they were under threat of grave bodily harm or death, and that immediate use of deadly force was necessary to stave the threat.

Looking at it that way...open carry may not be all it's cracked up to be. Carrying a gun openly on your hip just because you can may not be the wisest thing to do in today's war zone world. I prefer the element of discreteness myself.

tex

[K.Mooneyham]

If you were standing in front of a person, you with your holstered gun on your right hip, and the two of you got into a heated argument, and you placed your hand on your gun.

Could he defend himself to a jury that he reasonably believed immediate action was necessary to defend himself against you, as he explains why he shot you dead? And, his only witness is a woman who was standing behind you and saw you put your hand on your pistol grip. What she didn't see was that you had a smile on your face and that you were not threatening at all!

Or in the process of checking out at Walmart, with a policeman standing nearby, you reached for your gun and the cop drew on you and stopped the threat. He didn't know you were only putting your hand in your pocket for the money.

Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, self-defense is in the eye of the defender at the moment.

Meanwhile your still dead, or handcuffed going to the slammer. So be sure you don't present WHAT IS PERCEIVED BY SOMEONE ELSE as a threatening gesture or action. Remember, their only requirement is to prove to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that they had a reasonable belief that they were under threat of grave bodily harm or death, and that immediate use of deadly force was necessary to stave the threat.

Looking at it that way...open carry may not be all it's cracked up to be. Carrying a gun openly on your hip just because you can may not be the wisest thing to do in today's war zone world. I prefer the element of discreteness myself.

tex

I would love to see some real-world examples where this sort of thing has occurred in other states that have open carry. I would guess the mass media would plaster them everywhere if they had happened. Just like the cautionary tales of never, ever using handloads for self-defense because a prosecutor will secure a conviction against you if you use handloads.

[PaJ]

This could be an issue for me. Recently I was at a training class and was wearing a paddle holster at 3:00 on my strong side. I found myself resting my hand on my gun just because it was there. I guess I couldn't put my hand in my pocket, so that's where it went. Just that could be threatening to some people no matter how innocent it is.

I don't plan to open carry, but if I do it will likely be a little further back - same place I concealed carry - so I don't have the temptation and the draw is from the same place.

[Deltaboy]

I have not read much about it.

[C-dub]

This could be an issue for me. Recently I was at a training class and was wearing a paddle holster at 3:00 on my strong side. I found myself resting my hand on my gun just because it was there. I guess I couldn't put my hand in my pocket, so that's where it went. Just that could be threatening to some people no matter how innocent it is.

I don't plan to open carry, but if I do it will likely be a little further back - same place I concealed carry - so I don't have the temptation and the draw is from the same place.

LEOs rest their hand or arm on their handgun all the time and AFAIK never get in trouble for making a threatening gesture. Sometimes it is intended to intimidate, but most of the time I'd bet it's just because it's a good place to rest the hand. However, the phrase, "You don't show me yours and I won't show you mine" comes to mind. Umm, I can already see yours officer.

Anyone that does open carry and has contact with LE will be treated differently when it comes to this. And if an open carrier touches their gun by resting their hand on it the 911 caller will say that it was done in a threatening manner.

[The Wall]

There's nothing in the law pertaining to your question as best I can tell. That's why holsters are required. Keep it in your holster and you'll be okay. Resting your hand on the gun isn't pulling it out of your holster. I think motion involved in drawing your gun, or getting ready to draw is unmistakable. There's no reason to execute that motion unless you plan on drawing your gun. Not something you would do accidentally for sure. My 2¢ anyway. I've seen police officers standing around shooting the bull with their hand resting on the gun or thumb hooked in their belt over the holster. Only time will tell.

[MeMelYup]

Don't do what you would perceive as a deadly threat from someone else.
Don't walk up to someone with your hand grasping the handle of your handgun.
Don't grasp the handle of your firearm while looking at a person.
Don't rest your hand on your firearm. Do you rest your hand on your firearm while it is concealed?
Etc.

[viking1000]

As a former deputy, you put it on and just know its there, do not touch unless you plan to use it .

[texas yankee]

DING, DING, DING - we have a winner!

Thanks!

[PaJ]

Don't rest your hand on your firearm. Do you rest your hand on your firearm while it is concealed?
Etc.

I don't. I carry concealed at 4:30ish. In my training I was OWB at 3:00. So I need to carry at 4:30 for both for two reasons. One is so I don't rest my hand on it. And two is so the muscle memory goes to the same place for the draw every time.

[bleed]

assuming that open carry passes, I'm wondering about what the legal and practical do's and dont's will be as far as having a gun on my hip - last thing I wanna do is make an inadvertent move that someone would see as me "going for my gun" - would me simply putting my hand on my open carry gun be similar to brandishing in a CC situation? Or is it gonna be hands off until you are ready to shoot, resulting in "quick draw" situations? I'm just trying to get some ideas in case I decide to OC - I am NOT looking for a discussion why open carry is a good or bad idea - thanks!

Man, if that's all it takes to be a "threatening gesture", then I don't know about everybody else on here but I have been threatened by the Police every time I have encountered them. They are always and forever putting their hand on their gun. Not like they're ready to pull it out and fire it, but just more like resting their hand on it. I think of it as the officer would be putting his hand on his hip if the gun wasn't there. I don't see how it would be a threatening gesture at all. Some rest their palm on it, some put their thumb on it, but never seen an officer grab it in a manner that made me worry they were going to pull it out and shoot me.

[drjoker]

Suggest you conceal carry. Open carry law is great as it protects you from over zealous Leo's n libtard da's if you forget to throw on your vest before running out of the house. Or if you get hot under that suit, you can take it off.