CHL concerns driving through NM and AZ

[BCGlocker]

I am planning a road trip to CA and traveling through NM and AZ. With Texas CHL, can I carry my G23 in a car holster while in NM and AZ?

Of course right before crossing the boarder to CA, I will have to unload, place my G23 in a locked container in the back of SUV and place the loaded mags in another unreachable location such as glove compartment.

[CleverNickname]

Arizona has unlicensed carry (and recognizes Texas CHLs) and New Mexico recognizes Texas CHLs, so just carry however you would normally carry until you hit the California border. Check http://www.handgunlaw.us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for carry laws in other states.

One thing you may not have thought of is that California doesn't allow >10 round magazines, so your Glock 23's 13 round magazines will be a problem. Either buy some 10-round Glock 23 magazines, or take a different gun.

[JSThane]

New Mexico also has unlicensed open carry, so no worries about any accidental exposure. Just make sure that if you go in any place that sells alcohol (such as many convenience stores, Walmart, etc), that it's concealed. Also remember that NM has the weird quirk of allowing only one concealed handgun at a time; you can carry 17 pistols, but only one can be hidden, so the other 16 need to be openly carried.

Essentially, you can carry almost anything you want almost anywhere you want up until that AZ/CA line. Then you enter Mordor.

[2farnorth]

Be cautious when passing through any "tribal lands". They get to make their own laws that apply on their land only. Generally passing through and staying on the hi-way is no problem, but if you pull off at a motel or other establishment then you need to know their rules.

[ammoboy2]

No loaded magazines in the vehicle traveling in CA, so you need to unload the mags.

[BCGlocker]

No loaded magazines in the vehicle traveling in CA, so you need to unload the mags.

Is this a new law in CA? I thought that the unloaded firearm need to be in a locked container and the ammo (loaded in the magazine or not) to be in the separate area of the car.

[Rex B]

I just did this trip, and researched it ahead of time. BCGlocker has it right. In fact, it is my understanding that the loaded mags can be in the same locked case as the firearms, although many CA cops don't seem to know that. So to be safe, I kept the loaded (10-round) mags in separate luggage from the gun.

[oljames3]

No-guns signs have the force of law in NM and AZ. We Texans are used to our 30.06 and TABC signs. Be sure to research the laws before you cross the state line.

Lord willing, my 18 year-old son and I will be attending the National Association of Rocketry Annual Meet (naram.org), near Tucson, AZ, this July. When we cross the Texas/NM border, I'll untuck. When we cross the NM/AZ border, we'll pull over, remove the holstered 9mm BTA90 from the glove box and attach it to my son's belt. Researching the laws is part of the fun of planning the trip.

[The Annoyed Man]

I am planning a road trip to CA and traveling through NM and AZ. With Texas CHL, can I carry my G23 in a car holster while in NM and AZ?

Of course right before crossing the boarder to CA, I will have to unload, place my G23 in a locked container in the back of SUV and place the loaded mags in another unreachable location such as glove compartment.

I've made this trip a number of times (I am from there originally), and you DON'T have to place the unloaded mags in a separate location, and that is upheld in California law. I have this on authority from a friend of mine who is LEO in California. I'll go find his message details and post them here in a minute.....and it will cover pretty much anything you need to know between here and there.

OK, edited to add the following:

This exchange took place in August of 2010....

Hi Frank,

It looks like I'm going to have to go back out to California in mid-September to help my mom get moved out of her house and into an apartment, and then I'm going to be hauling some of her furniture back to Texas for storage and/or my use.

I'm going to be traveling with either a S&W M&P 45 or a S&W M&P340 .357 snubbie. I've checked the state's website, and both models are legal in California, and the .45 has a 10 round magazine.

Anyway, I realize that if I were just passing through, there would be no real issues. But in my case, I'll likely be there for as long as 4 or 5 days before driving (the long way around) back to Texas.

I won't be doing anything dumb like carrying the weapon illegally while in California, but I will be in possession of a holster for it, as my Texas CHL is valid in all but one of the other states I'll be passing through, and that one - Nevada - is an open carry state.

But my questions have to do with California specifically:

1. What are the legal requirements these days for transportation of a handgun in California?
2. What impact does the fact that the gun was purchased out of state have on my bringing it into the state - given that it is a model which can be purchased in state?
3. If I am travelling with the .45, I'll also be bringing along 2 magazines of 230 grain Speer Gold Dots; and if it is the snubbie, then 15 rounds of 125 grain Hornady Critical Defense loads. Are either rounds illegal in California?
4. I know that I can't travel in California with the gun loaded - even if it is in a locked box - but I've recently read that most jurisdictions consider a loaded magazine to be a loaded gun, even if it is not stored anywhere near the gun. Is that true?

Hoping you can help. Thanks...

The Annoyed Man

His answer.....

Hi TAM.... not that it's going to be a pleasant trip for you, but welcome back to CA. You ask some good questions so I'll try for good answers.

It doesn't matter whether your chosen gun is on roster or not so far as bringing it into the state temporarily. So long as you don't bring any mags that hold more than 10 rounds (instant felony when crossing the state line) your handguns are fine if otherwise legal where you bought them. The only exception I can think of off the top is a threaded (as in to accept a suppressor) barrel. That would be a bad thing to bring in to California. If you have an otherwise stock M&P 45 or M&P 340, you're good to go so bring them.

You'd only have to report importing a handgun into the state if you establish residence and move here. Otherwise, no worry.

Nevada is an open carry state, yes, but doing so in most of Clark County (Las Vegas) is frowned upon by local ordinance. Don't open carry on or around any of the Vegas hot spots or you will likely have a less than pleasant encounter with Las Vegas Metro PD. If your Texas permit is recip in Nevada, just go concealed. Arizona is open carry and no one bats an eye there.

California still allows you to CCW without permit on your own property or place of business. Inside your mom's property would be exempt from the Gun Free School Zone (state and federal) if there happens to be a school within 1000 feet. If you are hotelling it, the law does allow you to keep a loaded, concealable firearm in any temporary domicile, which includes a hotel room. I always have a loaded pistol in my hotel/motel room when I travel, unload it and take it with me in a locked container when I go out.

Ammo... there are no illegal rounds in CA, except tracers and chemical agent rounds. I stoke Pamela's Model 19 snub with 130 grain Gold Dot short barrel 38 +P. Both the rounds you mention are over the counter here. Bring 'em.

Traveling around with the gun.... unloaded and in a locked container is how it's done. The exemption lives in 12026 of the Penal Code. The locked trunk of a car = locked container. Glove box does not = locked container. An attache case with combo lock = locked container. The locked container covers you when passing through the magical 1000 foot from the boundary line of a school.... which are invisible and not marked in any way.

Loaded mags, or charged speedloaders in the same container with the gun, in the car or on your person DO NOT = loaded weapon so long as the gun lives in it's locked container. There is abundant case law on point. You can keep a shotgun in the car with ammo on a sidesaddle or buttcuff and the gun IS NOT loaded. If charged mag is NOT inserted in the butt of the pistol + NO round is chambered = NOT loaded.

There is a great deal of bad info, including still some LEOs, out there on this point about mags or loaders being present = loaded. That is crap, and we spend a lot of time out here educating on that. Case law, good statewide, covers that.

Should you want to try unloaded open carry, please don't. The field is littered with mines and it tends to piss off the po-po even though it's perfectly legal under state law. The gun free school zones are everywhere and there have been a couple of high profile cases, including one in LA county, where open carriers have been racked for school zone violations and convicted.

Hope all this helps and let me know if I raised more questions than I answered.
Cheers!!!!!
Frank

I will add that, having made the trip a number of times now (I-40 most of the way, coming from DFW), I CC in NM because I don't know where the Reservation boundaries are. I either CC or OC in Arizona, according to whatever makes me comfortable. I always stop and the In 'n Out Burger in Kingman, just a few miles from the border, and disarm there and lock the guns up in their cases. On return, if you are traveling I-40, there is a rest stop just inside Arizona on the eastbound side of the interstate, just after you cross the river. You can stop there to unpack and holster your gun. Nobody even cares.

Last note..... It looks like you're making the drive from El Paso, and I can tell you that there is no monotony like I-10 from El Paso to Los Angeles. It has to be the most boring piece of road in history outside of perhaps Iraq.......and that is made livelier in some places by the activities of some of the local color. No such "entertainment" along I-10.

If you have the time, I-40 is a much nicer drive, but it will add 200 miles to your trip each way, coming from El Paso. Taking I-10, Quartzite Arizona will be the last sizeable town you'll pass through. The last exit on I-10 right before you cross the river into California is Juneau Ave., but if you're not paying attention and miss it, you're hosed, and the CHP has a long nasty habit of parking on I-10 JUUUUUUUST inside of California to pull people over. Far safer to disarm in Quartzite, 18 miles before crossing the border. And if you miss the exit, enter California armed, get past the chippies without getting pulled over, you still will get stopped at an immigration checkpoint a few miles in......and the CHP hangs out there too, so......

[BCGlocker]

Hello,The Annoyed Man, thank you for all the detail information. I also plan to stop at Quartzsite to fill up with gas (gas is 30-40 cents more just across the boarder). I will also unload and place the Glock into the locked container and place the magazine in another locked container just be safe. I lived in CA for 48 years and in Texas only three months, I already wish I don't have to be back in CA.

[The Annoyed Man]

Hello,The Annoyed Man, thank you for all the detail information. I also plan to stop at Quartzsite to fill up with gas (gas is 30-40 cents more just across the boarder). I will also unload and place the Glock into the locked container and place the magazine in another locked container just be safe. I lived in CA for 48 years and in Texas only three months, I already wish I don't have to be back in CA.

I hear you. I was 54 when moved here.