OC Carry question

[RPBrown]

Based on the way the law was written, if we OC, it has to be in a belt or shoulder holster. However, I find nothing that says the holster has to be on your person. This being said, can you take the holster off, lay it in the seat or in my case in the little storage space in the door next to the seat? Below is the excerpt from the code.

SECTION 40. Section 30.05(f), Penal Code, is amended to read as follows:
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying:
(A) a [concealed handgun and a] license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a [concealed] handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster.

[mr1337]

Based on the way the law was written, if we OC, it has to be in a belt or shoulder holster. However, I find nothing that says the holster has to be on your person. This being said, can you take the holster off, lay it in the seat or in my case in the little storage space in the door next to the seat? Below is the excerpt from the code.

SECTION 40. Section 30.05(f), Penal Code, is amended to read as follows:
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying:
(A) a [concealed handgun and a] license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a [concealed] handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster.

The section of code you quoted is directed at a criminal trespass charge, not the open carry law.

What you're looking for is the following:

Code: Select all

SECTION 49. Sections 46.15(a) and (b), Penal Code, are amended to read as follows:
...

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who

...

(6) is carrying:
  (A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
  (B) a handgun:
    (i) in a concealed manner; or
    (ii) in a shoulder or belt holster;

Now, 46.02 does mention "carrying on or about his or her person" but that whole section doesn't apply to you if you have a CHL (now LTC). However, I believe the word "carrying" has always meant "on or about their person" so I don't think omitting "on or about his/her person" from Section 49 of the bill means it must be carried on your person. Having it somewhere within immediate reach is considered carrying.

Keep in mind that I'm no lawyer, so I could be wrong. This is just my understanding.

[Beiruty]

Also, there is penalty for failure to display a CHL. So, Why section 46.02 does require carrying a CHL license?

[The Wall]

No. It has to be concealed in your vehicle if you're not "Carrying" it. A belt holster is worn on a belt around your waist. A shoulder holster is worn over your shoulder. What's so complicated about this? Circumventing the law will get you in trouble I'm thinking.

[Beiruty]

No. It has to be concealed in your vehicle if you're not "Carrying" it. A belt holster is worn on a belt around your waist. A shoulder holster is worn over your shoulder. What's so complicated about this? Circumventing the law will get you in trouble I'm thinking.

For CHL purposes and up to last June new law, "On or about yourself" was the definition of carrying a firearm.

I guess we need a cleanup bill in 2017.

[steveincowtown]

No. It has to be concealed in your vehicle if you're not "Carrying" it. A belt holster is worn on a belt around your waist. A shoulder holster is worn over your shoulder. What's so complicated about this? Circumventing the law will get you in trouble I'm thinking.

Unfortunately those definitions are not in the law. The law also doesn't say There have been differing opinions ever amongst even the esteemed moderators of this board on what define a belt holster. One commented that any holster worn directly on the belt is a belt holster, another commented that any holster attached to the belt (such as drop leg) was a belt holster.

My prediction, folks are going to push it on both sides.

An Austin LEO may not even consider a paddle holster a belt holster. After all, it neither requires a belt or is attached to one.

An OC activist may at some point try to were a OC'd firearm across his chest on a shoulder holster.

[jimlongley]

Although I think that having the gun off your body in a belt or shoulder holster is outside the INTENT of the law, I agree that the language is just murky enough to need a tweak here and there in 2017. If I am carrying my gun in my hand, with it in a holster, with my hand wrapped securely around the grip and a finger on the trigger, I could be said to be carrying in a belt or shoulder holster, but I don't think anyone would argue that I fit within the intent of the law. And I have an Uncle Mike's belt holster for a 1911 that I can do just that with.

[RPBrown]

No. It has to be concealed in your vehicle if you're not "Carrying" it. A belt holster is worn on a belt around your waist. A shoulder holster is worn over your shoulder. What's so complicated about this? Circumventing the law will get you in trouble I'm thinking.

For CHL purposes and up to last June new law, "On or about yourself" was the definition of carrying a firearm.

I guess we need a cleanup bill in 2017.[/quote

And even that statement, "on or about yourself" could lead to some confusion. I consider in my door storage area or between my seats as about myself. There have been pictures on this forum of a gun in what appears to be a belt holster attached to the underside of the steering column. That was the reason behind my question

And, to The Wall-anytime you are dealing with items written by legislators, it can and usually does get complicated.

[o b juan]

I am curious How and where do folks think up these type questions??

I have been here a few years and am still puzzled about the thinking behind some questions

"Based on the way the law was written, if we OC, it has to be in a belt or shoulder holster. However, I find nothing that says the holster has to be on your person. This being said, can you take the holster off, lay it in the seat or in my case in the little storage space in the door next to the seat? Below is the excerpt from the code."

[ScottDLS]

I am curious How and where do folks think up these type questions??

I have been here a few years and am still puzzled about the thinking behind some questions

"Based on the way the law was written, if we OC, it has to be in a belt or shoulder holster. However, I find nothing that says the holster has to be on your person. This being said, can you take the holster off, lay it in the seat or in my case in the little storage space in the door next to the seat? Below is the excerpt from the code."

Though I am not the OP. The question also occurred to me. I would like to Open Carry in my car in a belt holster. Wearing one while sitting would be awkward to reach and I would prefer to leave it holstered on the passenger seat and put it on as I exit the car.

I believe the intent of requiring a belt or shoulder holster for open carry was to avoid people walking around with a handgun in their hand or drawing it without justification.

[jmra]

IIRC, there was thread a month ago or so where someone suggested mounting a visible belt holster to the console of a car. Mr. Cotton stated that would not meet the requirement of the OC laws. That legal opinion is good enough for me.

[cyphertext]

Though I am not the OP. The question also occurred to me. I would like to Open Carry in my car in a belt holster. Wearing one while sitting would be awkward to reach and I would prefer to leave it holstered on the passenger seat and put it on as I exit the car.

I believe the intent of requiring a belt or shoulder holster for open carry was to avoid people walking around with a handgun in their hand or drawing it without justification.

Just throw a ball cap or a towel over it... requirement to be concealed is met. My pistol rides in the cubbyhole in the dash with a ball cap over the top of it. Still very accessible.

As far as the intent, requiring a holster could be intended to help put folks at ease by keeping people from just sticking the gun in their gun in the waistband of their pants like a street thug. The holster at least gives the appearance of good guy.

[Taypo]

Though I am not the OP. The question also occurred to me. I would like to Open Carry in my car in a belt holster. Wearing one while sitting would be awkward to reach and I would prefer to leave it holstered on the passenger seat and put it on as I exit the car.

I believe the intent of requiring a belt or shoulder holster for open carry was to avoid people walking around with a handgun in their hand or drawing it without justification.

Just throw a ball cap or a towel over it... requirement to be concealed is met. My pistol rides in the cubbyhole in the dash with a ball cap over the top of it. Still very accessible.

As far as the intent, requiring a holster could be intended to help put folks at ease by keeping people from just sticking the gun in their gun in the waistband of their pants like a street thug. The holster at least gives the appearance of good guy.

I didn't really think there was this much discussion regarding how to carry in a car. If its a short drive, its still in my holster on my belt. If its a long drive its sitting on the passenger seat under a T-shirt. Either way, I can get to it just as fast as some dedicated (and questionably illegal) vehicle mounted solution.

[mojo84]

So, if I wear a piece of rope as a belt ala Jethro Bodine, will my Crossbreed Supertuck or other belt holster still meet the legal requirement? How about if I use duct tape?

[C-dub]

I am curious How and where do folks think up these type questions??

I have been here a few years and am still puzzled about the thinking behind some questions

"Based on the way the law was written, if we OC, it has to be in a belt or shoulder holster. However, I find nothing that says the holster has to be on your person. This being said, can you take the holster off, lay it in the seat or in my case in the little storage space in the door next to the seat? Below is the excerpt from the code."

Though I am not the OP. The question also occurred to me. I would like to Open Carry in my car in a belt holster. Wearing one while sitting would be awkward to reach and I would prefer to leave it holstered on the passenger seat and put it on as I exit the car.

I believe the intent of requiring a belt or shoulder holster for open carry was to avoid people walking around with a handgun in their hand or drawing it without justification.

Even before OC we all know that reaching our handgun, while seated in a vehicle, is not always an easy thing to do. OC will only make this a tiny bit easier and I cannot see where the new law will change anything if the handgun is not "attached" to our body in some way. It must still be concealed just as it is now. Another factor to consider is having a handgun loose in the vehicle. I think this is a dangerous thing to do because it becomes a heavy projectile in an accident that could cause even more damage to an otherwise survivable crash. I would not want to leave my handgun sitting on a passenger seat unsecured for such a possibility.