Hero Kills Bystander

[Jim Beaux]

Gillam says he was told a security guard has [sic]driven to the store to purchase something. The guard saw the scene unfolding and fired several shots to disable the vehicle.

One bullet struck the 36-year old woman

http://kfdm.com/news/local/woman-shot-i ... store-dies

This happened within sight of a hospital (4-5 blocks) & according to the news report, the victim was found in the opposite direction.


In a similar event last Thursday, I went to a Lawn Mower Dealer located in a strip center. I learned that just an hour or two before, some crack head walked in & calmly picked out 2 chain saws and ran out the door with them. By the time the clerks could get from behind the counter, the BG was gone. I was told it was a confusing mad house.

I scoped out the scenario when leaving and thought "what if"..... What if I was walking up to the door and shockingly met the BG running towards me with two chain saws? ...and with the clerks chasing & hollering?

Would I think it was a joke? Would I draw my weapon? Would I draw & fire? Would I have time to consider beyond my target & if so would I be able to orient for a safer back drop? Would I let him get closer so there would be less chance of stray rounds?

There was no safe back drop for 360* - I concluded that in this case I would draw, order the BG to hit the ground and if he didnt charge me & didnt stop, I would step aside, not take the shot, and be a good witness.

The danger to others were much greater than saving 2 chain saws

[Syntyr]

I would stand aside and let them run out. Two chainsaws are not worth my involvement. I am not the police.

[goose]

I suspect that I would passive aggressively tried to impede the perp without looking obvious. Play the bumbling shopper card so as to possibly help but not draw too much attention.

Edit: this is in reference to the chainsaws.

[flowrie]

I would just be a good witness, I'm not pulling my weapon for two guys running with beer in their arms. Not for chain saws either, unless the were operating and coming at me. AOI would apply.

[Bryanmc]

I might try to trip the guy with the saws as he ran by, but with no impending threat to me the weapon stays holstered.

The security guard from the article is in for a rough ride I would imagine and unless I missed something in the article "hero" is not a term I would use to describe him.

[Jim Beaux]

I would stand aside and let them run out. Two chainsaws are not worth my involvement. I am not the police.

As previously stated, it was wild confusion. I dont know what is going on. Is he insane & on a mass killing spree? This isnt even remotely about playing a policeman, it's about my defense.

You cant assume to know the intentions of the bad guy charging towards you with two chain saws. Though not running, a chain saw will cut you up if you are hit with one. Dont forget The Tueller Drill, seconds count.

[Bryanmc]

As previously stated, it was wild confusion. I dont know what is going on. Is he insane & on a mass killing spree? This isnt even remotely about playing a policeman, it's about my defense.

If he was insane and on a mass killing spree, wouldn't he be running towards the clerks instead of away from them?

[jmorris]

He's running to the gas station. He'll be back.

[Syntyr]

I would stand aside and let them run out. Two chainsaws are not worth my involvement. I am not the police.

As previously stated, it was wild confusion. I dont know what is going on. Is he insane & on a mass killing spree? This isnt even remotely about playing a policeman, it's about my defense.

You cant assume to know the intentions of the bad guy charging towards you with two chain saws. Though not running, a chain saw will cut you up if you are hit with one. Dont forget The Tueller Drill, seconds count.

No disrespect. I was not saying that you did have time to assess and decide to police. However, if two guys are running at me with chainsaws and I am in the doorway I am going to try to remove my self from their path. I am probably not tangle with them. Now if they had the chainsaws running I would probably be going to deadly force.

[bubba84]

From the very poorly written news article, it appears the women was the driver of the theft suspects get away vehicle. Not much of a bystander unless she just absolutely didnt know the grab 'n go was about to happen.

[magillapd]

Honestly, it's never a good idea to get involved in property crime, espically when it's retail theft. Step aside & be a good witness. If you're a police officer & are off duty I'm sure your department has policy & procudures for that. Since it's most likely a misdemeanor offense, you'll be directed to take no action.

"Stopping/supressing crime" is not the job or duty of a LTC. You open yourself up to unnecessary liability if you were to take action.

The gun you carry should be for your own personal personal protection and that of your family. If stepping aside & even running/leaving the scene can accomplish the same task, then that's the most prudent action.

It's not a "citizen hero license" (can't think of one for LTC at the moment). We are not responsible for other peoples safety and espically not responsible for a businesses inventory.

[Pig Renter]

If the woman was the driver and involved, she got what she had coming to her (but not what she "deserved" as many often proclaim in similar scenarios).

However based on the little details I read, I think this was extremely foolish on security guards part. I don't care if they were stealing beer or had just robbed a bank. Opening fire on a vehicle in most instances is just illogical and unnecessary. Especially for a civilian who is just arriving on the scene.

But like Augustus McRae says, "You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw. I'm sorry she crossed the line."

[Jusme]

Sounds more like she was an innocent bystander, and the guard was an idiot. Trying to "disable" the vehicle of fleeing beer thieves? How many movies did he watch to think that was a good idea?
Bullets don't stop cars, hitting a moving target, even one as large as a car, is very difficult with a handgun, and there is too much of a chance to hit other people. I agree the article is very poorly written, but I would expect charges to be filed in this case. It doesn't sound like the guard was in fear for his life, or the life of anyone else, but now there is a woman's family left to suffer because he thought he was Dirty Harry.
He could have done other things to be a good witness like get the license plate etc.. I would never involve myself in a case like this, and I would never introduce deadly force, for what would only be considered a class C misdemeanor .

[WTR]

I would never fire my weapon in public unless a life was theatened. Beer is a poor excuse for the loss of a life. I don't care if she was an innocent bystander or an accomplish. I don't see the security guard as any type of a hero. I would like to see him charged with involuntary manslaughter. I think he hade a Dirty Harry mind set and he is fortunate more people were not injured.

[MechAg94]

I would never fire my weapon in public unless a life was theatened. Beer is a poor excuse for the loss of a life. I don't care if she was an innocent bystander or an accomplish. I don't see the security guard as any type of a hero. I would like to see him charged with involuntary manslaughter. I think he hade a Dirty Harry mind set and he is fortunate more people were not injured.

IMO, shooting at fleeing thieves is a bad idea, but I wouldn't want to anyone charged. The risk of hurting innocent people is high so it isn't something anyone should do without good reason. I agree with the cautious mindset.