Employment and CHL application

[kg5ie]

Jared1981,

I understand your feelings on standing up for what you believe. Fill out the form, however you wish and roll the dice. Just be aware, the folks who will be processing your application are reading this forum .....daily. In order to do your criminal background check they will require your history.


Your application, your choice. Good luck.

[Jared1981]

Jared1981,

I understand your feelings on standing up for what you believe. Fill out the form, however you wish and roll the dice. Just be aware, the folks who will be processing your application are reading this forum .....daily. In order to do your criminal background check they will require your history.


Your application, your choice. Good luck.

Thank you sir. Not really sure just yet because money is tight however it doesn't really change much in the grand scheme of things being that I can carry under my Arizona license. The only advantage would be that the Texas license would be a NICS waiver and it would let me carry in through the state capital.

I don't buy firearms too often. And I really don't see myself going into the state capital. So the Arizona license will be just fine in the meantime.

Hopefully there is someone in DPS who is reading this and perhaps they will realize that that question falls outside of the scope of the Texas concealed carry statute.

[Keith B]

Thank you sir. Not really sure just yet because money is tight however it doesn't really change much in the grand scheme of things being that I can carry under my Arizona license. The only advantage would be that the Texas license would be a NICS waiver and it would let me carry in through the state capital.

I don't buy firearms too often. And I really don't see myself going into the state capital. So the Arizona license will be just fine in the meantime.

Hopefully there is someone in DPS who is reading this and perhaps they will realize that that question falls outside of the scope of the Texas concealed carry statute.

You can carry into the capital on an out of state reciprocal license as well. Just can't carry in a federal gun free school zone.

[Jared1981]

Thank you sir. Not really sure just yet because money is tight however it doesn't really change much in the grand scheme of things being that I can carry under my Arizona license. The only advantage would be that the Texas license would be a NICS waiver and it would let me carry in through the state capital.

I don't buy firearms too often. And I really don't see myself going into the state capital. So the Arizona license will be just fine in the meantime.

Hopefully there is someone in DPS who is reading this and perhaps they will realize that that question falls outside of the scope of the Texas concealed carry statute.

You can carry into the capital on an out of state reciprocal license as well. Just can't carry in a federal gun free school zone.

Oh, that's good to know in case I ever make it to the Capitol, for a while, some folks were saying they wouldn't let you enter armed unless you had a TX CHL. They based their complaints on that the law never required that but the police said that they can't verify the background checks that any one of the 40 or so states have done for a reciprocal license. If that was the case, I'm glad to hear that it has been rectified.

What you say about the federal gun free school zone is very true. However being that most off-duty cops (and retired cops who only rely on LEOSA) carry in violation of that law and being that BATF has yet to set up a sting for people who car carry without a CHL, in a school zone, I'm not too worried about that.

[jimlongley]

I understand Jim, but New York is a big state so consider that someone has lost a job when the sheriff's office has contacted a place of employment, not everyone has Tom King on speed dial. Also, being that most of the old formats of New York Licenses list your occupation on the actual permit, it's basically required unless you were lucky enough to have a good pistol judge. But yes, many counties like Monroe do take up to and over a year to issue, Ontario Co is pretty bad as well.

That's why I was asking, I don't have the money to be a test case, I wasn't arguing with anyone, I just don't care for their opinions on the matter which is why I asked if anyone has had any success in doing so. I didn't expect everyone to scrutinize my credentials or give me a grammar 101 lecture on "n/a" when it's frequently used as a place holder to omit or not answer a question.

So have a good day as you basically only wanted to inject that you feel that employment is a fair question and I'm sorry to say that TX law matters much more than your opinion. That and how my New York example (which is true) must be a lie because you obviously know what goes on in all counties in NY with all applications with your "decades" of experience with NYSPRA.

That must be a newer format than I have ever seen, never saw one with an occupation listed up until 1993, but it wouldn't surprise me to see judges putting it on there, as many of them have long records of abusing the process and adding restrictions that were not part of the law. That said, it's still not anywhere in section 400, as you stated, and the likelyhood of such a case slipping by the notice of a NYSR&PA county rep is slim at best. Name the case and I'll check into it. You would actually be surprised how much I know about what goes on in NY, but that's beside the point, you are claiming knowledge of such a case, so reveal it, or retract it.

So have your own nice day, but I should point out that nowhere did I inject anything about employment being a fair question, all I did was watch while you argued with others about their opinion, and yes you did argue, and jump in when you stated that people had lost jobs in OH and NY, but you have yet to present one such case. And then you made your unsupportable statement about the law in NY.

I could care less about n/a, go ahead and try it, what have you got to lose? If they turn you down you still have your other licenses, as you have pointed out, and they can't arrest you or fine you for it, all they can do is refuse it, so be the test case and let us know how that works for you.

[Jared1981]

I understand Jim, but New York is a big state so consider that someone has lost a job when the sheriff's office has contacted a place of employment, not everyone has Tom King on speed dial. Also, being that most of the old formats of New York Licenses list your occupation on the actual permit, it's basically required unless you were lucky enough to have a good pistol judge. But yes, many counties like Monroe do take up to and over a year to issue, Ontario Co is pretty bad as well.

That's why I was asking, I don't have the money to be a test case, I wasn't arguing with anyone, I just don't care for their opinions on the matter which is why I asked if anyone has had any success in doing so. I didn't expect everyone to scrutinize my credentials or give me a grammar 101 lecture on "n/a" when it's frequently used as a place holder to omit or not answer a question.

So have a good day as you basically only wanted to inject that you feel that employment is a fair question and I'm sorry to say that TX law matters much more than your opinion. That and how my New York example (which is true) must be a lie because you obviously know what goes on in all counties in NY with all applications with your "decades" of experience with NYSPRA.

That must be a newer format than I have ever seen, never saw one with an occupation listed up until 1993, but it wouldn't surprise me to see judges putting it on there, as many of them have long records of abusing the process and adding restrictions that were not part of the law. That said, it's still not anywhere in section 400, as you stated, and the likelyhood of such a case slipping by the notice of a NYSR&PA county rep is slim at best. Name the case and I'll check into it. You would actually be surprised how much I know about what goes on in NY, but that's beside the point, you are claiming knowledge of such a case, so reveal it, or retract it.

So have your own nice day, but I should point out that nowhere did I inject anything about employment being a fair question, all I did was watch while you argued with others about their opinion, and yes you did argue, and jump in when you stated that people had lost jobs in OH and NY, but you have yet to present one such case. And then you made your unsupportable statement about the law in NY.

I could care less about n/a, go ahead and try it, what have you got to lose? If they turn you down you still have your other licenses, as you have pointed out, and they can't arrest you or fine you for it, all they can do is refuse it, so be the test case and let us know how that works for you.

Jim,

Last post on the first page, you wrote on the second to last line "So far I have not seen one reasonable reason for NOT putting your employment history on your app". So, unless you retract that, you said it.

I've already told you, the Ohio examples came from NRANews when they covered Ohio extensively when Taft was veto-happy. For New York, it's based off of conversations from the Tresmond folks out by Buffalo, other than that, it''s not any of your concern. it's ok if you don't believe it, besides, the NYSPRA wasn't all that, they didn't put of too much of a fight over Pataki's "5 Points" law in 2000 because they took his word that the AWB a wouldn't be enforced.... Well, they were wrong.

As you know, not all NY licenses look the same, but a google image search of a NY Pistol License should pull up an example of one from as far back as 1933, where they list occupation. If 1993 was when you left then as you know, things got A LOT worse. Hopefully you just changed your address when you moved because if you did your license is still valid, but it has gotten much worse, more counties do seem to issue unrestricted as more people have gotten interested in who they elect for pistol judges, but the assaults from Albany never stop.

Never argued with others about their opinion except for telling them that "n/a" isn't lying, and that personal reasons of mine aren't any of their business why I feel employment isn't necessary.

But yes, my AZ license is good as you say. I'm sure some of the instructors aren't happy as they tend to get up in arms when people on here ask if they can just keep their reciprocal license because it means less money for them. witnessed this in AZ in 2010.

Some people just have a conflict of interest and it seems that fundamental rights are secondary to their CHL "instructor" racket.

[jmra]

I'm sure some of the instructors aren't happy as they tend to get up in arms when people on here ask if they can just keep their reciprocal license because it means less money for them.

Given the fact that renewals no longer require classes the most an instructor can hope to get out of an individual in a lifetime is $65-$100. Given the limited number of Texans carrying on an out of state license I'm sure instructors aren't losing any sleep over the issue.

[jimlongley]

I understand Jim, but New York is a big state so consider that someone has lost a job when the sheriff's office has contacted a place of employment, not everyone has Tom King on speed dial. Also, being that most of the old formats of New York Licenses list your occupation on the actual permit, it's basically required unless you were lucky enough to have a good pistol judge. But yes, many counties like Monroe do take up to and over a year to issue, Ontario Co is pretty bad as well.

That's why I was asking, I don't have the money to be a test case, I wasn't arguing with anyone, I just don't care for their opinions on the matter which is why I asked if anyone has had any success in doing so. I didn't expect everyone to scrutinize my credentials or give me a grammar 101 lecture on "n/a" when it's frequently used as a place holder to omit or not answer a question.

So have a good day as you basically only wanted to inject that you feel that employment is a fair question and I'm sorry to say that TX law matters much more than your opinion. That and how my New York example (which is true) must be a lie because you obviously know what goes on in all counties in NY with all applications with your "decades" of experience with NYSPRA.

That must be a newer format than I have ever seen, never saw one with an occupation listed up until 1993, but it wouldn't surprise me to see judges putting it on there, as many of them have long records of abusing the process and adding restrictions that were not part of the law. That said, it's still not anywhere in section 400, as you stated, and the likelyhood of such a case slipping by the notice of a NYSR&PA county rep is slim at best. Name the case and I'll check into it. You would actually be surprised how much I know about what goes on in NY, but that's beside the point, you are claiming knowledge of such a case, so reveal it, or retract it.

So have your own nice day, but I should point out that nowhere did I inject anything about employment being a fair question, all I did was watch while you argued with others about their opinion, and yes you did argue, and jump in when you stated that people had lost jobs in OH and NY, but you have yet to present one such case. And then you made your unsupportable statement about the law in NY.

I could care less about n/a, go ahead and try it, what have you got to lose? If they turn you down you still have your other licenses, as you have pointed out, and they can't arrest you or fine you for it, all they can do is refuse it, so be the test case and let us know how that works for you.

Jim,

Last post on the first page, you wrote on the second to last line "So far I have not seen one reasonable reason for NOT putting your employment history on your app". So, unless you retract that, you said it.

I've already told you, the Ohio examples came from NRANews when they covered Ohio extensively when Taft was veto-happy. For New York, it's based off of conversations from the Tresmond folks out by Buffalo, other than that, it''s not any of your concern. it's ok if you don't believe it, besides, the NYSPRA wasn't all that, they didn't put of too much of a fight over Pataki's "5 Points" law in 2000 because they took his word that the AWB a wouldn't be enforced.... Well, they were wrong.

As you know, not all NY licenses look the same, but a google image search of a NY Pistol License should pull up an example of one from as far back as 1933, where they list occupation. If 1993 was when you left then as you know, things got A LOT worse. Hopefully you just changed your address when you moved because if you did your license is still valid, but it has gotten much worse, more counties do seem to issue unrestricted as more people have gotten interested in who they elect for pistol judges, but the assaults from Albany never stop.

Never argued with others about their opinion except for telling them that "n/a" isn't lying, and that personal reasons of mine aren't any of their business why I feel employment isn't necessary.

But yes, my AZ license is good as you say. I'm sure some of the instructors aren't happy as they tend to get up in arms when people on here ask if they can just keep their reciprocal license because it means less money for them. witnessed this in AZ in 2010.

Some people just have a conflict of interest and it seems that fundamental rights are secondary to their CHL "instructor" racket.

Yes, I said that, and I mean it, but it was not the reason I entered the discussion, it was merely an aside, and I still mean it. If you are really that concerned, give it a try and see what happens. Maybe you will be plowing new ground for others here, but I am not at all concerned about it either way.

As a NY State recognized pistol permit instructor I probably, in the 15 or so years that I taught those classes, seen far more pistol permits than you ever have and status of employment was not on them. My grandfather, after he retired and moved to NY to be near his daughter used to take great glee in putting "unemployed" on forms asking for his employment, and I see no reason to suspect that he did anything else when he applied for, and got, his pistol permit. But that, of course, is hearsay and you won't accept it any more than I will accept your citation less referral to some apocryphal happening around Buffalo, and BTW, you never mentioned Ohio cases in the NRA news to me.

And part of the reason I so gladly left NY was due to my observation of the workings of the state government, literally from the inside out, and it is and always has been disgusting. Pataki was a liar, and probably still is, as was Rockefeller, Wilson, Carey, Cuomo the First (I remember listening to him on his car phone, talk to Matilda about his run for President right after denying he was running at a press conference) and all the rest, it's NY City politics brought to Albany, where the majority is from NY City and they will stomp down any opposition. Pataki didn't really need to lie, he would have gotten the bill through even over NYSR&PA's objection, all it did was smooth the waters and cut down on the chances of an upstat filibuster.

I left in 1993, and did change my address, but renewal was denied, just like when I finally moved back to TX after a short stop in IL and the revoked my FOID. Nothing in the law provides for that, so they cited it as an "administrative rule."

And one of the things we fought against for many years was judges adding things to the permits that were not on the form. Yes, the forms have changed some over time, just as TX CHLs now have no "SA/NSA" field on them, but in the days (1960s) when NY's forms were hand filled out or typed punch cards, all the forms came out of the printing office in downtown Albany, and they were all the same across the state. Here is an interesting example though, back when the counties printer their own permits and their was no standard, and this person got away with not listing an employer. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... =0&ndsp=26" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I have seen you argue with many people, which was part of the impetus for my joining the conversation, as I knew that Albany, Rensselaer, Greene, Schenctady, Schoharie and several other counties where I taught and resided had no requirement that you enter an employer in order to obtain a permit. Over time I knew several people who applied for and got permits while unemployed in hopes that they would be able to obtain employment in in security or a police agency. I myself applied for my permit while I was employed as a patrolman by the NY State Park Police who did not issue weapons, you provided your own, and if you didn't have a permit, you carried a night stick. My permit had not been issued when I left their employ.

And Jim Tresmond may very well know of such a case, but he has never made it public knowledge, so I find it doubtful.

I am not a TX CHL instructor, so I have no dog in that hunt, but I do have an opinion about people who are residents of my state that dance around the edge of the law by carrying on a permit issued by another state for whatever flimsy reason. You live in TX, and just like providing ID to vote, you should get a TX CHL. If you want to keep your out of state CWPs so you can carry in other states, by all means do so, but this is your primary residence and I am in favor of the law being amended to require TX residents to carry under TX CHLs.

So, once again, since there is no real penalty for doing so, other than rejection of your application, why don't you step up and apply and let us know how you make out?

[Jared1981]

Yes, I said that, and I mean it, but it was not the reason I entered the discussion, it was merely an aside, and I still mean it. If you are really that concerned, give it a try and see what happens. Maybe you will be plowing new ground for others here, but I am not at all concerned about it either way.

Thank you for admitting that you only came here to stir the pot.

And I have seen you argue with many people, which was part of the impetus for my joining the conversation,

Like above, another lie. I asked a simple question, and the Ohio expert chimed in because I repeated what Cam on NRA news talked about ( I just referred to it as NRA, I didn't know I needed to be more specific. You jumped in because even though you left NY 22 years ago and somehow know EVERYONE's application story, and the career instructors who feel threatened, (the 52 year old guy who uses smiley faces in his posts).

That's not arguing with "many people", just corrected the Ohio guy, and then you hijacking the thread about New York and a jerk instructor who was trolling after he knew I didn't want to feed his racket. Everyone else has been civil and so have I, and I thanked them for their posts.

Others answered and I thanked them, and others just wanted to be jerks. So between your New York hijack and a disgruntled instructor, we have been civil and discussing this issue on here.

And Jim Tresmond may very well know of such a case, but he has never made it public knowledge, so I find it doubtful.

We may have been speaking past each other on this one, I never said it was a court case. The person in question received their permit (hunting and target I believe) but their employer fired them when the sheriff's office called them during the background check. I doubt the Pistol judge knew or cared. They got their permit, it just cost them a job. Probably wasn't the first time and wont be the last that it happens to someone.

Sorry if I brought up New York as an example, it's where I went to college and people told gun horror stories every now and then, and this was one of them. Just let it go. Sorry I didn't speed dial some senior citizen who left New York back when grunge was still big and let him know what happened to prove my street cred....

I am not a TX CHL instructor, so I have no dog in that hunt, but I do have an opinion about people who are residents of my state that dance around the edge of the law by carrying on a permit issued by another state for whatever flimsy reason. You live in TX, and just like providing ID to vote, you should get a TX CHL. If you want to keep your out of state CWPs so you can carry in other states, by all means do so, but this is your primary residence and I am in favor of the law being amended to require TX residents to carry under TX CHLs.

Kind of funny, someone who leave NY and then wants to implement more gun control in Texas, even if it's just that one little thing. I'm sure many other transplants from California, Mexico and the Northeast have more little common sense ideas and before we know it. Texas aint so pro gun anymore.

So, once again, since there is no real penalty for doing so, other than rejection of your application, why don't you step up and apply and let us know how you make out?

I thought a CHL forum would be of value to where I could ask the question and see if the issue has been paved, also to save $$$ for paying someone for more training (to exercise a fundamental right) and then another 3 figure application fee to bureaucrats in Austin. Sorry for asking. I mean, how stupid of me to ask a gun questions and something of principle on a 2nd Amendment forum.

And sorry that it's an issue that YOU may not approve of. I don't go around hijacking other threads I don't care about. Personally, I don't think TX is as pro-gun as the media makes it sound. DPS takes some liberties in making up rules that don't exist, and we still need a permission slip to exercise a right.

[Keith B]

OK, since you can't seem to follow Moderator warnings, topic is locked.